Do you intend to provide any kind of compensation to affected users beside replacing the keyboard, considering you sent out a faulty product to them (me included).

Cheers

Peter McDonald

"we chose to chose to use a larger left-shift key"

Really? Is that your story?

Take a look at the pictures. It sure looks like the left shift key is the same size in both pics. Perhaps the real problem is that the back-slash key is in wrong position. I'm guessing you got an amazing deal on these keyboards but nobody noticed what was wrong until the units had shipped.

Jorge: True. The left Shift key is the same size as on the right. Some UK keyboards have a left Shift key that's about half as wide as the right Shift. That's what Bill's talking about.

Take a look at this keyboard layout to see what I mean.

Dudes, they're fixing the problem...

Why should you be compensated, they're a stand-up organization that have left the most honest response I've ever seen.  Any why do all mistakes need to be malicious attempts at screwing over the customer?

 Cheers Dell, for the win.  I'm going to continue to use your products.

 D

 Jorge, please read the post more carefully.

 As Bill stated, "the backslash key was placed in its normal spot, immediately right of the Shift key." You imply that Dell has used shoddy parts, but have failed to think through the matter or even read the posting correctly.

 Yes, the shift keys are the same size, because Dell manufactured the keyboard with an "oversized" (for UK standards) left-shift key. They cannot simply send out a smaller version of the left-shift key, because there would be no additional slot for the backslash key to go into. To prevent having to replace the entire keyboard hardware/chassis, which allows users to complete the fix themselves, Dell has decided to simply move the backslash to the other end of the row. Sure, it will at first be awkward for UK touch typists, but for whatever reason, most laptop manufacturers seem to place one or two keys "out of place" anyhow. It seems to me that this is now kind of a non-issue.

 So yes, that really is their story. And yes, it is the truth. The backslash key is not  in the wrong position for the market that this model is being sold in, the shift key was simply too large. Next time, please employ logic before making accusatory posts.
 

This is fantastic that you're working on this so quickly and I applaud your response to this.

But you've gone and kept the large left shift key and moved the \| key to the right of the row, rather than making the left shift key smaller... why?

You mention it appearing on more systems here... I will have to take your word for that, but all 6 keyboards I can see in front of me right now have a small left shift key and the \| key to the left of the z. Why reinvent the wheel? If there's a good ergonomic reason for this choice then that's great, but I can just sense that I'm going to fit this new keyboard into my laptop and be (a lot less, but still a little) frustrated with it.

 Here's the logic for why the |\ should be on the left not the right:

• Look at where a touch typists fingers little fingers sit
• Note the distance the little fingers have to travel to reach a shift key

• when we have a small left shift, the 'A' is only half a regular sized key away from the shift key. A nice small distance to travel
• again with the small left left key, the big left shift key is only half a regular sized key from the colon/semi-colon on which the right little finger sits.
• however, if you apply the layout you suggest, the left shift key is under half the right shift key
• ... but the left shift key is now one and a half keys away from the semi-colon. The right little finger has a long distance to travel, making reaching for it take longer and be more of a pain.

So there's a very convincing argument to go for the standard UK layout with small left shift and \| on the left. What's the convincing counter argument that lead you to your chosen design?

I'm presuming that what you've applied here is the cost-effective quick-fix and that there is no other argument for your choice. I can completely understand this choice given the circumstances, but I don't think its going to work for me I'm afraid.

Jake.

Hi Jake... to answer to your question. A keyboard design with a wider shift key on the left is one that several manufacturers use - see here images from Fujitsu-Siemens, Compaq/HP, Toshiba and Acer systems. You're right that we were able to go with this replacement design at short notice, other options would have taken several weeks to action. Enabling customers to touch type was the primary concern. 

Best regards, KerryatDell

While most UK laptop keyboards have 1:

[shift][\][lettttttters][/][--shift---]

some Acer laptops use 2:

[--shift---][lettttttters][\][/][shift]

So what went wrong was that Dell used the latter physical keys, with the labels off the former, giving 3:

[--shift---][\][lettttttters][/][shift]
 

 It looks like they always planned to use 2 but that something went wrong along the way. Now it's fixed. How it managed to get that far without somebody noticing is a mystery, but it's good that they're offering on-site repair.

It's about time that some sort of standard appeared for these things!

Hi Jake... to answer to your question. A keyboard design with a wider shift key on the left is one that several manufacturers use - see here images from Fujitsu-Siemens, Compaq/HP, Toshiba and Acer systems. You're right that we were able to go with this replacement design at short notice, other options would have taken several weeks to action. Enabling customers to touch type was the primary concern. 

Best regards, KerryatDell

 Well, that is a relief, I thought it was just me and a smaller keyboard. And lots of senior moments!

A nice little mouse as a present would go down nicely... 

I hope you guys realise that all they are doing is sending out the same keyboard, remapped and just moving the keys to the left.

I have done this manually and software remapped the keys. It is horrible. Look at the V and B in the "new layout", yes it WILL look exactly like that. Failure. 

Dell be professional about this. Send out NEW keyboards and do them right. 

Obviously this is the simplest solution for Dell - not the best for the customer (i.e. being left with a completely non standard keyboard layout). 

Many questions -

What happens if a user undertakes this change and screws it up (e.g. cracks or marks the case, breaks keyboard connectors etc...) Do Dell undertake to replace the laptop in these circumstances?

What impact is there to the warranty - is this extended to cover the time that the laptop is not usable.

 What compensation will Dell be providing to users for:-

a) the time they do not have use of the laptop

b) fitting the keyboard

c) most importantly - being left with a laptop with a completely non-standard keyboard layout.

d) what has happened to Dell's Quality Control process?

why would you be compensated for a small error?  Dell is human like the rest of us and mistakes can happen.  Differrent manufacturers place the backslash key in different places so this is no error, its the manufacturers choice.

i have the same problem in my inspiron 6400

 can you change the keyboard ?

i am in saudi arabia

Why do you say EU keyboard, this is a UK keyboard in the EU if we want to use an english keyboard layout, we use the US international layout, UK is just the island next to the EU :-)

But now the keyboard is not UK standard layout. UK standard layout (BS 4822) requires the [\|] key be next to the left hand side [shift] key, not the right hand side [shift] key. Touch typists used to UK standard layout are still in trouble when they need to use the [\|] keys. While better than having every key on the bottom row in the wrong position it's still not correct and will still cause problems. Just because some other manufacturers are  breaking the standard is no excuse for Dell to join the club.

I'm not defending the odd UK layout (the double-row [return] key that pushes the [\|] key onto the bottom row in the first place is the underlying problem of course), but it is the standard they use and Dell should be providing keyboards that comply with it.
 

A small error!!!   Not if you touch type it isn't.  It "is not a workable layout" the man said.   And what's this nonsense about sending a video to show me how to install a new keyboard.  I don't know anything about the inside of a computer.  If I bought a new car and the clutch was faulty they wouldn't send me a new one and a video showing me how to install it.  And where are these "field technicians" coming from?  What if I bought a Dell because there are no local alternatives? 

Oops! Lets fix the problem by creating another!\\\ 

 I've received a vostro 1510 with spanish keyboard(im spanish) last Thursday and there is the same problem...but the key on the left of "Z" is "<>" . But its the same, z,x,c,v... are one place on the right.

I called dell on Friday (next day) but im waiting they contact me to solve the problem. Although I suposse that this solution is for spanish users too, or not? 

Otherwise ill call dell on monday again.

Sorry about my english... :P 

Be clear about it - the keyboard layout being suggested is absolutely non-standard for the UK market. It is simply an expedient and cost effective way for Dell to get out the the foul-up it has made. I checked 14 laptops on sale today in a major retailer from manufacturers like HP/Compaq, Toshiba, Acer, Samsung etc... All used exactly the same layout (with the ""\" beside a smaller Left Shift), as does my current Dell Latitude D620!

I seriously think some sort of "sorry" gift is not out of the question here... My Dell laptop is just sitting there untouched because I can't type on it... what a monumental failure. 

I was offered a refund by Dell Tech Support and given a date for a pickup of the unit. But no one turned up on the agreed date to pick it up. Are refunds still on offer.  Not impressed.

My Dell Vostro 1510 is still in pre-production since I ordered it two weeks ago, will it now be sent out with the correct keyboard?

I have just received my email telling me how to change the keyboard etc.  I only got my Laptop last week!!  My Primary concerns are the same as Damien Poland.  And whilst yes Richard, and others who have brought up this issue 'this was a mistake and not malicious',  Dell is a multi million £/$ organisation that has quality control (or not apparently) and they are paid NOT to make mistakes.  They have all of our £500/£600-$1000/$1200 but in the meanwhile masses of people are inconvenienced and expected to do Dell's maintenance for them, under threat of do it or wait inevitably for Dell's first come first served basis offer of an engineer.  Not a very gracious offer given this is their fault. 

But that diatribe over, again, Like Damien I am most worried about the affects on warranty and accidental damage during my own efforts to do the swap!

Why are you sending out new keyboards? The only change is the |\ key being moved to the RH side, and the Z-? keys being moved one place to the left. Why not just send out a key removal/insertion tool, and the software CD? Surely this would be safer/easier than replacing the whole keyboard.

Thought I'd add my 10 pence to the discussion...

Over the past 10 years I've had umpteen laptops, each with a different keyboard layout to the rest.  The XPSM1330 I'm using has one that's different to my old Inspiron 2500, which was different to my Toshiba Portege 7000, which was different to my  Compaq LTE Lite, so I don't know where this 'standard laptop keyboard layout' has come from!  At work We have all sorts of machines from Compaq/HP, Dell and Toshiba, and by and large, the backslash moves around more often than an indecisive bluebottle.

For years, Toshiba hid the backslash  next to the space bar - and which side of the space bar changed from model to model!  Surprisingly, though, after a while, thats where you expect to find it! 

Desktop keyboards aren't immune to reorganisation or the keys either - has anyone compared a recent Microsoft keyboard to the 'standard' IBM Model M 102/101 key layout?

I will concede that the double size Shift with a backslash next to it would be difficult to use, but:

• It's a laptop, it's bound to be different to 'the norm' in some way
• Dell have kindly issued a FOC (Free of Charge) replacement, advice on how to change it if you're brave, or they'll fix it for you if you aren't.

Other companies would charge you for a new keyboard, or try an aportion blame elsewhere - Dell admitted they made a mistake and are trying to make amends.  More importantly, they LISTENED TO A CUSTOMER who said that their product had a flaw, something quite rare in this day and age.

And, if you're going to go to the trouble of remapping the keys in software, and/or painting new symbols on them, or otherwise rejecting the help Dell have offered, please don't complain about not receiving a service that you have refused.

This IS poor show. Don't pat Dell on the back for fixing the problem ... thats what their supposed to do. This shouldn't have happened in the first place !!! It makes me wonder did anyone actually look at these laptops ? And if they did ... did they try typing something ? Seems like a pretty simple test to me. Do the guys testing this stuff not touch type ? oh dear .... I'm getting depressed. I myself work in IT and I'm well capable of replacing the keyboard or re-mapping the current one, but you know what ? I'm not going to. I don't care how long it takes I'm going to be on the phone and email everyday. This is Dell's fault they can fix it and I encourage everyone to request a field technician to do it. Can't wait for my call from Dell. I hope it is clear to dell that this is not a small problem, after only a few attempts this computer becomes too frustrating to use. Dell should give the keyboards they take from users and give them to the people responsible for this disaster... or beat them with them ...