The 590 SLI Chipset from NVIDIA's Perspective

Mon. Dec. 04, 2006

Given the ongoing concern about Dell’s implementation of the 590 SLI chipset on the XPS 700, I wanted to take a few minutes to clarify some things from NVIDIA’s perspective.

For AMD platforms, the nForce 590 SLI SPP (what was commonly known as the "northbridge"), supports a single x16 PCIe connection as well as 2 x1 connections. All products that are branded nForce 590 SLI, include both an nForce SPP and nForce MCP (this two chip solution is commonly referred to as a "chipset"). Because this is a dual X16 PCIe platform, it has to be paired with a media and communications processor (MCP), or what is commonly referred to as a "southbridge." The MCP chip used in this solution is called the nForce 590 SLI MCP. The nForce 590 SLI MCP incorporates the second x16 PCIe as well as 4 x1 connections.

Because AMD incorporates a memory controller into its CPUs, we can also utilize the nForce 590 SLI MCP as an alternative single chip solution that provides a dual x8 functionality for more mainstream PCs. For these specifics uses, the nForce 590 SLI MCP is used but is branded to consumers under the nForce 570 SLI name. This is necessary so that consumers can distinguish between the nForce 590 SLI solution which is dual x16, and the nForce 570 SLI solution which is dual x8.

For Intel, we have a nForce 590 SLI Intel Edition SPP that also incorporates a memory controller for Intel CPUs. This SPP is paired with the nForce 590 SLI MCP, which is the same thing as the nForce 570 SLI MCP. Some programs, including CPU-Z, report the "southbridge" as nForce 570 SLI MCP. This is fine. However, you need to distinguish between what NVIDIA brands as the nForce 590 SLI solution vs. the individual chips which are used on the motherboard.

For the XPS 700 and 710, Dell uses the nForce 590 SLI SPP (for Intel) "northbridge" and the correct southbridge, which in this case, is the nForce 590 SLI MCP, also known as the nForce 570 SLI MCP. Dell’s implementation is the one represented in the first two pages of this PDF on our site that some of you referenced in the comment thread to Lionel’s earlier post on this topic.

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Only published comments... Monday, December 04, 2006 10:45 AM
by Bryan Del Rizzo, NVIDIA MCP Business Group
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Gbakmars said:
I am not sure what the point of this response from nVidia was supposed to do for the XPS 700 owner. The question that needs to be addressed, is what happened to the removed features? What 'enthusiast' wouldn't want EPP memory capabilities? Or auto overclocking of GPU's?  The loss of those two features alone, leaves many scratching their heads. The chipset that nVidia sent Dell way back in the first of the year, seems to not have performed as expected and  I would really like to hear nVidia respond to the kinds of questions that the Dell XPS 700 customer has been asking for 5 months now, not some explanation to help us understand what naming system nVidia has chosen to use. And I would enjoy hearing from nVidia, the explanaion as to why nVidia dropped the 590 chipset, never letting it reach the retail market. Apart from increasing FSB, what is the difference between the 590 and the 680i? I suspect that questions will continue until there is a clear and complete answer. The bottom line: The chipset/motherboard in the Dell XPS 700 doesn't offer anything more then what the XPS 600 offered.. The nVidia 680 is getting great reveiws though from Aivas47a on the Dell community forum, but he built his own. Help us out nVidia. Please.
December 4, 2006 11:21 AM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Gbakmars: Appreciate your comment. The intent of this post was to try to clear up some of the churn around chip labels from pictures on this page of an XPS 700 discussion thread at the Dell Community Forum. Some of the questions you raise are about decisions Dell made in terms of our implementation of the 590 SLI chipset. Regarding EPP memory, nothing new to report beyond what I said in the last paragraph of my XPS 700 BIOS post.

Regarding overclocking, up to this point, Louis Bruno blogged about using the Automatic Tuning option of the nTune application. It is possible to overclock the GPU using NVIDIA's nTune, both in the Automatic and Manual Tuning modes.  I'll see about getting someone to cover the manual option, that let's you control more of the details.
December 4, 2006 11:21 AM
Pointguard1122 said:
The Dell 590 SLI Chipset from a consumer's perspective.
When the XPS 700 was first announced adn it was advertised as leveraging the power og the 590 SLI chipset I was excited.  I was going to get cutting edge technology in my new system.  Then I clicked on the link and read all of the features of the Nvidia chipset.  When people started actually getting their XPS700s (months later) we found that it was being reported as either 570SLI or Nforce 4 SLI.  I got a little woried.  Then we began to offical statements from Dell stating that most of the features were removed from the chipset in order to keep things standard accross all product lines.  Of course this was understandable because the XPS 700 should have the same features as the bottom line dimension desktop.  Next I try to do a little simple OCing with Ntune only to find out what a dog this chipset is for OCing.  This really took the enthusiasm away from the C2D processor as it would not reach anywhere near its potential in this system.  Next, some of our fellow members looked under the heatsinks to see a 570SLI and a Nforce 4 chipset.  I still don't understand how you can take a one generation old chip and a 2 generation old chip, add one feature (2 16X PCIX lances) and call it cutting edge technology.  Finally, my cutting edge 590SLI mobo died last night when trying to do the grueling task of opening itunes.  Now I have a 80lb paper weight until late this week or next week.
December 4, 2006 11:49 AM
Mavtech said:
Wow.  That is one confusing explanation!  So, by this explanation, the SPP is really a new SPP to officially make this a 590 chipset?  But, the MCP is technically a 570 MCP?  Then why did Dell market the "nVidia nForce 590 MCP" on their website?  They didn't say "590 Chipset".  The site specifically said "590 MCP".  How does a 570 MCP paired with a different SPP now make it a 590 MCP?  It may make it a 590 chipset as a whole.  But, it's still a 570 MCP regardless of how you spin it.  Dell most definitely failed to market it the right way.
December 4, 2006 12:23 PM
Tom Phillips said:
    Brian,
I know you are talking about nvidia's point of views and that is fine.  The problem is that Dell advertised the XPS 700 as being nvidia 590 chipset, over-clockable and upgradeable, so far none of these three are true.

Dell heavily reduced the functionality of the 'chipset', it does not over-clock well at all, and it is a BTX layout, after Intel announced to the public that it would not support future BTX development, meaning Dell and others knew this was coming for a long time.

Granted none of this is on nvidia, but Dell's poor implementation directly impacts nvidia with negative press and feelings of being 'ripped' off by the (now) second largest seller of computers.
December 4, 2006 3:21 PM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Tom: Sorry that you're frustrated with us. Regarding overclocking, see my earlier comment to Gbakmars. No new information to share on upgradability, but I can say we do understand this is a point of frustation for you and some XPS 700 customers.
December 4, 2006 3:21 PM
Kong57 said:

So you get to downgrade our machines and you fixed it so i cannt upgrade. So now i feel lied to.

XPS 700

570/590 chipset

C2D 6800 Extreme

Nvidia 512 dual GTX

4gb 677 Ram

How can I upgrade my Upgradable gaming machine. You left me hanging and thats not right. If you offered me my money back right now I would take it. The only reason I bought this it was advertised as Upgradable....

December 4, 2006 3:27 PM
Kevin D Webb said:
Ok, so if the chipsets are correct, then Dell should be able to enable the features. What is missing from the mobo that does not allow us to CO as promised? What is missing that does not allow for Sli memory? What is missing from the mob that does not allow for first packet technology and linkboost? What is missing from the mobo that does not allow for dualnet technlolgy, teaming and TCP/IP acceleration? If this is a true 590 motherboard, then what does Dell need to do to enable the features to work. Explain that, either Nvidia or Dell. Its Dells mobo and Nvidias chipset, between the 2 of you with the millions of dollars your making, let one of your reps answer the questions we as XPS owners have been asking for 5 months.
December 4, 2006 3:48 PM
Docpete6 said:
  Could someone at Dell please explain how I can upgrade this motherboard as was stated by Mr. Menchaca and in a introductory XPS 700 video. It should not take 4 months to tell us what proprietary power connecters we need. The motherboard was advertised as upgradable and nowhere  in the original advertising for the 700 was it advertised that 590 features were removed. Dell has every right to modify it's motherboard, however, not revealing this to the purchaser is both misleading and unethical. When I buy a fully loaded luxury product, I expect it to be fully loaded.
December 4, 2006 6:39 PM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Docpete6:  First off, sorry for the frustration, and thanks for your comment. Feel free to call me Lionel.:)  When I wrote that XPS 700 motherboard was upgradeable to industry-standard BTX boards, I expected that they would be available in retail. That hasn't happened, which is why I haven't posted anything about custom cables after mentioning them in a couple of posts.

I can say to you and to others who continue to e-mail me and post comments that folks at here at Dell understand that motherboard upgradability is an important issue for XPS 700 users.
December 4, 2006 6:39 PM
XPS700_user said:

The PDF to me doesn't mean a thing.. it even says on the document "Product markings and specifications subject to change without prior notice"

Also the document was generated the day Lionell made the announcement. So its basically a marketing hogwash to back up Dell's lies. (plus it kinda looks like a bad cut and paste job on an existing document)

If your going to offer proof, can we please see a engineering document (dated perhaps around July since thats when XPS700 was suppose to ship) that shows the marking relationships of the 590 SLI products? ( or how about the silk screen drawing files for the 590 SLI products?)

If your explanation was truly the way Nvidia had plan to label the so called 590 in the XPS700, then it should stand to reason your internal engineering documentation dated before July should show that was the intent. No?    

December 4, 2006 10:10 PM
Brian Toogood said:

What I want to know is when exactly are you going to accept responsibility for this mess? All I read from your are excuses and attempts to pass the blame to another party. Did your site not advertise the XPS 700 as upgradeable? Did your site not advertise the XPS 700 as 590 motherboard? Where did it say you were going to disable the 590 motherboard features? Where is the FULL disclosure? Why is it taking so long to fix the problems and why are you so intent on passing the buck? When will you acknowledge your errors and get on with providing REAL customer service in terms of resolving the many, many issues that have been raised. I am tired of your comments which only server your interests and do not reflect a true desire to fix the problems. I have asked you many, many times about the lack of bios overclocking and you have NEVER provided an answer. So. When will you tell us the truth Lionel? When will you stand behind your product, admit your mistakes and offer us REAL alternatives? Why would you seek to hide the truth? How about answering the question this time without baiting us with promises of more information when it's clear that you have no real intention of DIRECTLY answering the questions?

December 5, 2006 11:54 AM
Kong57 said:

Lionel Menchaca, Digital Media Manager said: " I can say to you and to others who continue to e-mail me and post comments that folks at here at Dell understand that motherboard upgradability is an important issue for XPS 700 users".

 But is it a important issue with Dell? So I ask you now is there a plan in the works that "you" know of that will help us XPS 700 users out? All we need is a simple YES or NO. You dont have to give details just the comfort of the answer would be nice....

December 5, 2006 1:29 PM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Kong57: As of today, the answer would be no. That doesn't mean that nothing will happen... Just being honest that no official decisions have been made.
December 5, 2006 1:29 PM
Robertf900 said:
Lionel

When can we expect some kind of answer regarding the motherboard upgrade,  I mean if we had some kinda time line it would make things alot better for you and for us, but keeping us in the dark and saying nothing about it, is not helping Dells XPS image nor the XPS fourms.

I've Said it again and again, all we want to know is If Dell are going to give us the option with an upgraded motherboard its a simple yes or no

You know very well we can't to go newegg.com etc to buy one, so our only source of getting one is Via Dell.

Why has it taken you guys so long to give us a honest answer, you even though you probably won't say it, you know the 590 motherboard did not live up to Dells expections, but yet you continued to sell it.

We have been more then patient here since June.  Just give is an answer so we can all move on......  I mean are we asking for too much here ??

December 5, 2006 2:01 PM
Bryan Del Rizzo, NVIDIA MCP Business Group said:

Just to clarify a couple of other points you guys raised.

First of all, the nForce 590 SLI-based motherboard did hit the retail channel for both AMD and Intel platforms. In fact, they are available today from leading etail and retail outlets. I'd include links here, but I'm sure you guys know where to look.

The main difference between the nForce 590 SLI MCP (Intel Edition) and the nForce 680i SLI (Intel Edition) are the level of overclockability and dedicated support for faster memory DIMMs. Both support Core2 and Quad Core. The nForce 680i was engineered from the ground up for overclocking in fact. However, considering that we just launched it in November, clearly this was not something Dell could have designed into the original plan for the XPS 700. At the time, the nForce 590 SLI was still arguably the best platform for Intel CPUs based on performance, features, and SLI-certification for multi-GPU configurations. In addition, the upgradeability message from NVIDIA was more about the CPU than anything else.

Also, it bears noting that the nForce 590 SLI supports dual x16 PCIe lanes. The nForce 570, which is a single chip, only supports dual x8.

December 5, 2006 4:36 PM
Brian Toogood said:

How can Bryan Del Rizzo claim that the 590 motherboard supports Quad Core CPU's when Dell, in this very blog, said that support was limited and that users could "attempt" to use Quad Core CPU's at our own risk? Go back and read the entry in this blog (from a few weeks back) about this EXACT issue. You (nVidia) and Dell are both blowing smoke on this clearly. Maybe the two of you should get your "stories" straight before commenting next time.

Again, Lionel... for the umpteenth time...    WHAT ABOUT BIOS OVERCLOCKING IN THE XPS 700 "GAMIING MACHINE"? YOU HAVE NEVER ANSWERED THIS QUESTION AND I AM GETTING TIRED OF ASKING YOU.

WE WANT ANSWERS. NOW!

December 5, 2006 6:49 PM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Brian Toogood: At this point, besides the ability to enable or disable overclocking in the BIOS, (enabling allows you to use NVIDIA's nTune application), there's no other overclocking options in the BIOS.
December 5, 2006 6:49 PM
ransom234 said:
Bryan,

If that is the case - that does not work in the Motherboard either. According to Dell, their implementation of the 590 SLI will not support processor upgrades to the new Quad Core.

So what processors is the board upgradeable to?
December 5, 2006 6:58 PM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:

Ransom234: To clarify what I said in my post, Quad Core should work on existing XPS 700 motherboards. Why did I use those words? Because we can't guarantee that Core 2 Quad processors will work in every case due to Intel's revised guidelines.

December 5, 2006 10:05 PM
Tom Phillips said:
Lionel,
We would like to see development of BIOS overclocking in the next release for the extrreme CPU's like the XPS 600 and XPS 710 support..
We want BIOS tuning for overclocking and faster memeory that the chipset supports as well even if it is not industry standard it is standard with nvidia and was assumed to be enabled with the XPS 700.

You guys finally added VT support and x64 support so get on the ball the XPS 710 has BIOS OC support for extreme CPU's now you need to add faster RAM support and most all of us will be happy.

The big thing Dell needs to learn is to clearly state what there gaming systems support and do not support since on the XPS 700 Dell stated it was a 590 solution and we just (very wrongly) assumed we were getting the real deal not the gimped version we received. By the way I am pointing out we PAID for the real version!
December 6, 2006 10:11 AM
Brian Toogood said:

Lionel,

I am acutely aware that there is no Bios Overclocking enabled in trhe XPS 700. THAT IS MY POINT. Are you just being cheeky? I have asked this same question over and over again and this how you reply? How can I make this clearer for you? What WE WANT is BIOS OVERCLOCKING... NOT via software. Do you understand?

December 6, 2006 1:28 PM
Robertf900 said:
Well Lionel,

Based on the infomation posted in the XPS700 thoughts thread from jsrder  as you can see quoted here. It works but you can't get the 4 cores online.  Just another case of been told one thing, and turns out to be another....  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robertf900 wrote:
so another words its useless, as you don't get four cores ..correct ?
jsrder

That was my conclusion and since Dell stated that the 700 motherboard lacked the proper impedence and since the 700 motherboard only has 2 GTLREF's and the quad core needs 4 (i.e. why the redesigned motherboard for the 710) - I see no reason for anyone to risk damaging parts to try this unless Dell comes out with some indication of it being supported.
December 6, 2006 4:17 PM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Robertf900: Sorry for the delay... overlooked your comment earlier. In rgards to your comments, I don't believe that information is correct. If the Core 2 Quad processor works in your system, it will work as a quad core processor. Next week, I'll check with the development team on this to confirm.
December 9, 2006 7:42 AM
Rick said:

Hi Lionel,

I think it’s great what Dell is doing with the 700 and new 710 line.  I have a few questions for you.

Why is Dell behind on the graphics card line?  I just ordered an XPS 710 with dual 7950’s.  I have a feeling the 7950 will not last long with the release of the 8800 series.  I was a little disappointed that Dell did not offer the new GeForce 8800 series lineup. 

Does the 710 series support the new 8800 GTX series?

I was also disappointed with the memory options available for the new 710.  Why doesn’t Dell offer a broader choice for memory?  667mhz memory is the best Dell offers.
 
Don’t get me wrong, I am not criticizing Dell.  I love my Dell’s - M1710G, 690, and D820. – I feel Dell is a little behind when it comes to gaming/overclocking.  Another good is example is the video drivers – Dell should give the customer a little flexibility on staying current with the latest nVidia drivers instead of waiting for Dell to modify the inf files, etc…

Thanks,
Rick

December 16, 2006 1:41 AM
Steve said:

Lionel,

Hi, I am just getting caught up on most of these topics, please forgive me if this post falls a little off topic... I want to piggy-back off of Rick's post...I have a XPS 700 with the Intel core duo extreme 6800... I have upgraded my GPU to the 8800 GTX (single card) and everything seems to be going well....I still need to run some test and what not...

And now for the dreaded BUT.....

But, I have read in other post that the XPS 700 does not support running the 8800 GTX in SLI mode... for that reason I have held off on buying my second 8800 GTX until I get official word that my system will support two of these wonderful cards running in SLI....

Please advise...I would like to buy that second card if you can tell me that everything will be fine?

Thanks,
Steve

December 21, 2006 10:35 AM
Lionel Menchaca, Chief Blogger said:
Rick & Steve: Our development teams are currently qualifying the 8800 GTX... that's all I have at this point. May have to let you know after the holidays.
December 21, 2006 3:01 PM
Andrew Gale said:
Is there any update on Dell's qualification of the 8800 cards? I have currently looking at purchasing a XPS 710 system and would really like to include the 8800 with it.
January 3, 2007 9:33 PM
Patrick said:
same for me... I'm not going to buy one before I don't see the 8800 included.

January 9, 2007 10:08 AM
babboxy said:
in France they just told me that the 710 is available with 768MB nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX (Dual) Card ... why don't they show this on the website?!
January 9, 2007 10:35 AM
babboxy said:
they show it today :))
January 10, 2007 4:39 AM
Madbirmy said:
Hi, I was wondering how can I replace my motherboard in my xps 700 if it dies. I cannot find a decent "BTX" motherboard form DELL, NEWEGG,TIGER DIRECT or any where else on the web even intel's website doesn't have a decent one, nor nvidia. I know that there might be a free replacement later this year. But how do I purchase a board to install myself. or just to have one as backup. please give me a place to purchase a motherboard from dell or anywhere that is just as good or even better for my xps 700/710.  The more I search the more I hate BTX,  what's the bad thing for Dell's xps 700/710. it's the BTX,BTX,BTX,BTX, for factor please help.
March 17, 2007 12:32 PM

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